Curse

Kelfer · Mar 30, 2011, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

failed to find a place where the ranger is dominant

Not supposed to be that, that's a Mes attribute! I think you're getting the `wrong end of the stick`. Frankly, I feel sorry for you if you can't find a use for that char. Just shows how stuck the Meta game is. Take your face outta PvX and look around, there's still plenty of Rangers around!

Harking back to to `the good old shadow form days' isn't really doing a lot of good either. It was nerfed for a reason in PvE!

In the game at the moment, Rangers are unpopular simply because of such views....

Beomagi · Mar 30, 2011, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Basing a class's (in general) capability on one build utilizing a secondary, doesn't mean the class is capable. A class needs to have a variety of working builds. Concentrating on one, means you've got a few hundred skills to rework.

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiros

a ranger with pre-nerf shadowform was the highest armor ignoring damage i've ever seen. with a zealous bow, they could do 800..900 damage a shot every shot, and have a net energy gain without scatter. this was with splinter barrage + IATS!. these were the yellow numbers we could correctly identify. many times, there would be so many damage packets that the far left and far right numbers would overlap so much we couldn't read them.

bring back SF for the sake of the rangers! and every other profession that has a skill that 'affects adjacent foes'.

my ranger guild member made a ranger exclusively for the above purpose. since the nerf, we've failed to find a place where the ranger is dominant.

SlappedYak · Mar 30, 2011, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Hey guys, thanks for the discussion, it's been interesting seeing people rally to the defence of their beloved profession despite it's current lack of favour in pve

I'm not hating on ranger, just whining about their sad decline of late :P And PUG attitudes to rangers just annoy me so much!! No I'm probably not the world's greatest player, but I'm not bad! But because they see a ranger (and often a pet most of the time...beastmaster ftw...) they assume I'm crap >.< but meh...their loss I guess I'm just gonna have to prove em all wrong

I think I might start looking at rangers as less of a "support" and more as a "commander" type way as several have described it

sometimes a simple mindset change is enough to get excited about something again!

SlappedYak · Mar 30, 2011, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leohan

I for one take "Broad Head Arrow" 90% of the time, 20 seconds of daze, you won't be the only one hitting the foe. Add some "Epidemic" condition spread to your or others skill bar and your laughing. "Great Dwarf Weapon" on your pet of fellow physical damage ally helps out everyone.

I used to love Broadhepidemic then got massively flamed by some PUG for using it when mesmers are so much better at applying mass dazed and even without mesmers there's "technobabble"... sigh

Quote:

With the whole PuG group thing, screw them, find a guild/community of people who are willing to teach, explain and there to have some fun.

Easier said than done xP I've been in a dead guild for ages now, everyone I know left GW about two years ago and without joining pugs in the first place it's kinda hard to meet new people...lol...that sounds pathetic, socially awkward online?! >.<

RedDog91 · Mar 30, 2011, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Rangers get a bad reputation because no one takes the time to learn how to play the profession.
Playing as a Ranger at a level that can be considered to be successful takes a lot more work into learning the profession than most other professions. The only 2 that take as much effort are Mesmer and Paragon, but because of certain skills that these two professions have, they are favorable to people who want to learn to use a new profession. Because the Ranger has no clear favorable skills over other professions means less people take the time to understand why the Ranger is the way it is.

That being said, a player who spends the time to learn the Ranger properly can be one the most useful members of any party. And by properly learning the profession, I mean try not to use pvxwiki...yes, the builds are good FOR WHAT THEY DO, but they hinder your learning of the profession and won't help at all in the 90% of the game where they can't be used correctly, specially the Ranger builds.

mortenya · Mar 30, 2011, 08:16 PM // 20:16

ranger is still my main. though i've found that i like melee in GW more than ranged combat. so i just run dagger/pet. people who don't play ranger don't realize how much damage a dagger/pet ranger can do, and have spamable deep wound.

unless i'm in a place with lots of melee hate (or a mission like dragon's lair) i dish out a lot of damage.

i've since been running R/P so that i can have fall back! all the time in pugs. and judge's insight + barrage wrecks undead if you can get them balled.

X-Plosiv · Mar 30, 2011, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khaal

My Ranger is my main, and what's worse is that I like to run a beastmaster build, so nobody wants me, even though I rock. Unfortunately, the only solution I have found is to either wait for a very long time for a group to accept me and hope they don't ask me to ping or be the group leader. So, I've started leading a lot. In areas I'm not too familiar with I will try to find a group, but a lot of the time I just have to lead. Kinda sucks, but it's good for me, I guess.

Add me in game: Drizzt Dourden Tp

I'll always play with you when I have time

My main character is ranger too, and i would not like to change it for anything.

My guild accepts me as a ranger, and like someone said, usually ranger is last one alive.

Belzebu · Mar 30, 2011, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Ranger is my main and so far my only char (at least the only at lvl 20).
Many times I join PUGs for the ZM and end failing it, then I try to go with only heroes and so far it always worked.

As people mentioned rangers aren't in the "meta SC team builds", but I'm running R/P beastmaster build and I'm doing great at everything and in PUGs I always end resurrecting the rest of the party since I'm the only survival, NRA gives a constant regen and IAS, HaO gives bonus damage and life steal and a heal AND bring your pet, also you can equip a shield, with all that you have an amazing survivability, even my pet survives more than most of the players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlappedYak

Easier said than done xP I've been in a dead guild for ages now, everyone I know left GW about two years ago and without joining pugs in the first place it's kinda hard to meet new people...lol...that sounds pathetic, socially awkward online?! >.<

Check the guild I'm in

Charter Vanguard
Active friendly guild

ricocheting · Mar 31, 2011, 08:18 PM // 20:18

the reason there is PuG hate toward rangers is that there is NOTHING unique+useful Rangers bring that some other profession could not do better. people can blame it on "pvx snobbery" all they want, but simply wanting to run the most efficient builds isn't snobbery in my book, it's smart gameplay.

That said, rangers are still tons-o-fun. load your heroes up with skills to buff your damage (several splinters, orders, strength of honor if melee, that type of stuff). and while those other classes might still out-damage, out-control, out-buff, out-interrupt, or out-play you, you get the satisfaction of knowing your female ranger in 15k druids looks better.

Str0b0 · Mar 31, 2011, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricocheting

the reason there is PuG hate toward rangers is that there is NOTHING unique+useful Rangers bring that some other profession could not do better. people can blame it on "pvx snobbery" all they want, but simply wanting to run the most efficient builds isn't snobbery in my book, it's smart gameplay.

This. I started with a ranger, but right about Nightfall they sort of lost their luster. Now there is nothing a ranger can do for a team that another class cannot do better and when you're talking about high end PvE synergy is the key. This is a team based game, whether you play with humans or heroes you want the most synergy between the bars.

So what role can a ranger play? Well they aren't very good healers, since expertise doesn't reduce spell cost a healing secondary is worthless. They don't offer any party buffs at least none that don't similarly buff the enemy group ala various spirits. They have some conditions, which can be nice, but they lack the ability to apply them AoE without relying on a secondary. As far as damage output Assassins and warriors overshadow anything a ranger can do even on the best of days.

So at best a ranger is a mediocre DPS and a fair to middling condition spreader. Mediocre and fair to middling do not go hand in hand with good team synergy. So it isn't snobbery on the part of those assembling a team. they simply want the best possible team with the best possible synergy and the ranger can't offer that. It's simply the way the meta is right now. The best you can do is pray for an overhaul similar to the dervish update. Other than that you can always roll a paragon or a mesmer.

byteme! · Apr 07, 2011, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricocheting

the reason there is PuG hate toward rangers is that there is NOTHING unique+useful Rangers bring that some other profession could not do better.

This. You could even twist this around. If Rangers did bring something unique and useful would they still be hated?

I don't mean the one off chance a team will need FS, EoE or the like but for the Ranger class to be able to provide a profound use throughout PvE and not just for specific scenarios. Even then anyone with a /R secondary could do the same.

I've played all 10 classes extensively over the past ~6 years. I've done everything, unlocked everything, all weapons, heroes fully equipped, beat game 100x over etc... etc... Regardless what I'm doing I always find myself using my Ranger and Ele the least simply because having played all ten classes I find other classes are simply better at the roles I give them. I've tested builds from Guru, Wiki, youtube, online elsewhere and I always come to the same conclusion. So it's not a matter of me not knowing how to make builds or not trying anything different. I can assure you my opinion is not bias but what I've been able to observe playing and comparing each class.

I am fully aware some people simply play for fun. But put yourself in the shoes of someone who's beaten every aspect of the game 100x over. I bet you your definition of fun will change as you progress and age along with the game. You're going to want to be efficient because quite frankly I don't see many people willing to take their time doing the same things over and over at the same pace with the same stale builds and strategies. You're going to naturally want to get better and faster at the game or quit. Isn't that why we're always constantly tinkering with our builds? Fun is a given. None of us would be playing GW if it wasn't fun. It goes without saying. I can sympathize with people who don't care and play for fun. I once was just like you. Fast forward 6 years. My definition of fun has changed. So will yours if you manage to stick around.

X-Plosiv · Apr 07, 2011, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

I can sympathize with people who don't care and play for fun. I once was just like you. Fast forward 6 years. My definition of fun has changed. So will yours if you manage to stick around.

Depends on the person (you see difference between person and player?), to be honest.
I've seen people who play for 5-6 years aswell, and still they prefer their ranger over any class. It just depending what a fun means to you. Some just enjoys their lore and their role in it.

Personally, I've been using my ranger for 2 years now, and though I have Elementaler, Necro and Sin on lv 20 as well, don't really enjoy playing on them like I used to.

Because at the end of the day, I just play this for fun. When I wanted challenge in the past, I would go to UW and try to break MNTS record (couldn't get it under 6 minutes

), but for fun, enjoyment, and even a challenge, HM with ranger is way to go for me

Korain · Apr 07, 2011, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Rangers are the best at condition spamming builds in my opinion. And they are not at all bad at spike damage. Stick with one of those 2, and see what you can come up with. Barrage builds are always a good choice.

A friend of mine is currently working on something along the lines of a Barrage and Volley build that uses a fire bowstring and apply poison.

Haggis of Doom · Apr 07, 2011, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I would like to remind people in this thread about one thing:

Yes, playing ranger can be fun. But the OP was talking about getting into groups. Believe it or not, being rejected from a group based on your profession is not fun.

It is a fact that the PvE ranger is never the - best - choice for any role in a regular group. And please stop with the "good at playing rangers" argument; a good player can get a lot out of a ranger, it is true, but a similarly competent player can get a lot more out of the other professions.

The conditions the ranger is good at applying are laughable in PvE. Spike damage over sustained DPS is bad, but looks good to some people due to the instant gratification (tip: look at Discord). Mesmer interrupts are far better. Pets are wannabe Warriors. Splinter Barrage shines with balled mobs, but if you're balling 100b/VoS + MoP is better.

Yes, the ranger can do all these roles, which means if you are alone you can be prepared for any of these playstyles and adapt to whatever mission you are doing. That doesn't mean anything in a group attempting high-end PvE, however, since if they need a role to be filled, they want the best possible option. Not to mention that if you are a ranger, the sole fact that you have trouble getting into groups (since everyone knows this is an issue with rangers) means you are likely less experienced with the area and with your build/role than someone else with a more "meta" bar.

You can compromise by doing these human-y things with your guild, but this is really an issue anet should fix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korain

A friend of mine is currently working on something along the lines of a Barrage and Volley build that uses a fire bowstring and apply poison.

There's no reason to have Volley on a bar that has Barrage. And preparations don't work with Barrage/Volley.

It would also be a good idea to give the fiery bowstring a miss, use vampiric/zealous and have an Orders necro

Xiaquin · Apr 07, 2011, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlappedYak

I used to love Broadhepidemic then got massively flamed by some PUG for using it when mesmers are so much better at applying mass dazed and even without mesmers there's "technobabble"... sigh

Mesmers are terrible at producing their own daze. Archer's Signet makes Technobabble more useful than any profession can. However, don't expect a PuG to immediately understand how this works, because they see AS and it's not on their short list, and will immediately think you're bad out of ignorance or that Panic is better (when it doesn't work the same way).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricocheting

the reason there is PuG hate toward rangers is that there is NOTHING unique+useful Rangers bring that some other profession could not do better. people can blame it on "pvx snobbery" all they want, but simply wanting to run the most efficient builds isn't snobbery in my book, it's smart gameplay.

To a certain extent, yes, but they're not even close to necessary to win at the majority of PvE. Players' inability to understand this and ability to look at the make-up of a party and properly place a value on a build is a real problem. Many of us can see trouble a mile away, and I can't tell you how many times my PuGs have held out for the status quo instead of just gone with what's available.

OP: rangers won't "shine" at a lot, especially after the recent nerfs to flat damage buffs. With heroes, the world is still your oyster, you can concoct a number of great team builds. With PuGs, it's hit and miss. I've long-since stopped pinging my builds unless I'm asked. Honestly if you are worried about ranger builds in general PvE your party might be in trouble already.

miriforst · Apr 07, 2011, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Mesmers are terrible at producing their own daze. Archer's Signet makes Technobabble more useful than any profession can. However, don't expect a PuG to immediately understand how this works, because they see AS and it's not on their short list, and will immediately think you're bad out of ignorance or that Panic is better (when it doesn't work the same way).

Well, playing a ranger main and an elonian mesmer beside him (and yes i was tinkering with AS before

) I would say that panic is better than permanent daze from and elite skill and a pve slot while having to use either a great deal of physicals in your team or use volley or something awkard. And even then its easily interrupted and not interrupted and works only on spells instead of practically everything (including normal autoattacks) like panic would nor does it cover the huge area of panic (double aoe effects) even though its range is for most cases sufficient. And then we have dual wastrels and misstrust to really juice out the effect to its maximum so you are not only making a group constantly trip over its own feet but also kill them sometimes even a lot faster than a dwg would. Without breaking a sweat. But still i think its a creative and original build that is fun as an option for the ranger

As for the situations i think the situations where you wouldn't need a panic mesmer i do not think permanent daze is any big deal either.

Urcscumug · Apr 07, 2011, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I can think of at least a couple of recent cases when I took a ranger hero with me on purpose (Prophecies Ascension missions).

One time I needed to kill some melee foes from a distance, over a gorge. It was nothing they could do but fume about it.

In the second case I felt the need for a combination of interrupts with some extra melee damage. The ranger was perfect for it and allowed me to compact two hero slots into one.

Doug4130 · Apr 08, 2011, 04:08 AM // 04:08

yes and the other 99% of the time you'll take a class or hero that can do that and much much more. I love rangers, but their niche (trapping, interrupts, conditions, nature rituals, preparations) fall way short of the newly buffed class' abilities. I can do great damage on my ranger and know how builds work, and I have fun with it, but I get a whole lot more mileage with a derv/warrior/mesmer/necro/rit than is possible with a ranger. I really hope some changes are in store for this much-loved profession!!

Xiaquin · Apr 08, 2011, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by miriforst

/snip

I wasn't making a direct comparison. Dazing slows spell casting and shuts down if under attack while Panic requires nearby foes activating their own skills to interrupt each other. Two very different things going on there.

Amy Awien · Apr 08, 2011, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricocheting

... but simply wanting to run the most efficient builds isn't snobbery in my book, it's smart gameplay.

Call it what you want but at the end of the day this efficiency-drive was the cause of the decline of cooperative play; whole generations of mesmers, sins, rits and rangers have stopped looking for groups and turned to H&H - or another game.